Technical Readout 3075 preview

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Technical Readout 3075 preview

Post by Typhoon » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:47 pm

http://www.classicbattletech.com/downlo ... ew_TOC.pdf

The front page and the Table of Contents for the latest TRO. Some interesting things in this one.

Enjoy the look!

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Post by AVA MANGO TWO » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:13 pm

Just call me Mystic Mango as i can predict the future well so it seems, ive said several time now i was expecting to see the release of some of the older Battledroids and semi canon magazine designs from the early years... 8)
Well this 3075 TRO will be a must have for me as i see it has just that Good old Starleage well now i guess its classed more as lost tech goodness. :D
But i also see alot of rehashed Jihad Hotspots material in there to, thats a bad habbit they are getting used to filling out new publications with with recently published stuff. :roll: zac
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Post by Heimdall » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:22 am

Which is done because research in the industry has proven that players ask for and buy books that put material, perhaps not all of it but a good chunk of it, in one place so that they don't have to take several books with them.

I certainly appreciate it and I know quite a few others that like the ability to cut down on materials.

Furthermore, some of the books, Dawn of the Jihad as an example, are currently out of print so players may not be able to get those designs in the original publication so there they are in the TRO.

It also being the era of the Jihad, I would expect to see those designs for completeness sake in a TRO whose year is set smack-dab in the middle of it.

You may consider it a bad habit Ava and you do have a right to your opinion but there are others that are glad that such things are done.

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Post by Typhoon » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:12 am

AVA MANGO TWO wrote:Just call me Mystic Mango as i can predict the future well so it seems, ive said several time now i was expecting to see the release of some of the older Battledroids and semi canon magazine designs from the early years... 8)
Well this 3075 TRO will be a must have for me as i see it has just that Good old Starleage well now i guess its classed more as lost tech goodness. :D
But i also see alot of rehashed Jihad Hotspots material in there to, thats a bad habbit they are getting used to filling out new publications with with recently published stuff. :roll: zac

Oh, Mystic Mango, how do you do it? Tell me Mystic one! I need to know. :wink:


I don't know, Zac, putting stuff in multiple sources seems to be a bit of a good thing, especially for those of us who forgo some books in favour of others or those who have limited gaming budgets or both.

For me the days of buying everything and anything BT are pretty gone so I would hate having to hear second hand a lot of Jihad info. I do not intend to be buying "Jihad Hotspots" any time soon so getting a "rehash" in this TRO is actually a good thing for me. No doubt some will not like it but you can't please everyone.

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Post by GRUD » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:42 am

I think it's gonna be GREAT! Any idea what the 'Mechs on the Cover are? Also, isn't there a JES II? I didn't see it listed. Also, what's the deal with the Clan "Pariah"? Why the quotes around the 'Mech's name?
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Post by Typhoon » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:48 am

GRUD wrote:I think it's gonna be GREAT! Any idea what the 'Mechs on the Cover are? Also, isn't there a JES II? I didn't see it listed. Also, what's the deal with the Clan "Pariah"? Why the quotes around the 'Mech's name?
A JES I is there so maybe the JES II comes later... say next TRO! :wink:

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Post by AVA MANGO TWO » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:51 am

Which is done because research in the industry has proven that players ask for and buy books that put material, perhaps not all of it but a good chunk of it, in one place so that they don't have to take several books with them.
I certainly appreciate it and I know quite a few others that like the ability to cut down on materials.
I can live with it as i simply dont have much of a 'choice' in the matter unless of course i deside to refrain from buying anymore future Battletech publications, which isnt going to happen...

I just dont agree with paying for published material twice over because ive opted to buy a product early on in its self life, yourself and others may well appreciate the fact it cuts down on extra material needed to take on games night and makes gaming more fluid having alot of material printed in only a couple of core books, which is very true and are good points.

But then again i can show you the opposite side of the coin and the people who are unhappy with this policy, as they feel its bad practice haveing to basically pay for a product twice over simply because they desided to go out and buy a book early on in its printed shelf life, and they dont mind if they have to carry a extra book or two to games sessions.

So here is a suggestion, all of the Jihad Hotspots or any other multipul future publications when they are completed could be re-release as a final edition (compendium) that includes all the other published Hotspots material, this would keep all needed information about the Jihad together and would give the gamer the option to buy the product or not, as it stand he / she isnt given a 'choice' in the matter they have to end up buying and owning a product twice reguardless if they wanted it or not...
Furthermore, some of the books, Dawn of the Jihad as an example, are currently out of print so players may not be able to get those designs in the original publication so there they are in the TRO.
Being out of print so soon after its first release date, how longs it been now 4 months why? dont you think its a bit convienient what with the pending release of the new TRO...
It also being the era of the Jihad, I would expect to see those designs for completeness sake in a TRO whose year is set smack-dab in the middle of it.
I agree with you but as ive said id just prefer to see new material over already printed and used published material...
You may consider it a bad habit Ava and you do have a right to your opinion but there are others that are glad that such things are done.
Its a bad habbit because this is not the first time in recent years this has been done and its bad form not to give your customers an option, there are other who would atleast like the 'choice' if they want to buy a new publication with only half of the product containing new material and the other half of the new product contains pre published material.
If a trilogy of core books (Jihad Hotspots) for instance is in print wait for all the books to be completed, then give the option to print the omnibus edition, simple really then everyone is happy....
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Post by Heimdall » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:12 pm

AVA MANGO TWO wrote:
Furthermore, some of the books, Dawn of the Jihad as an example, are currently out of print so players may not be able to get those designs in the original publication so there they are in the TRO.
Being out of print so soon after its first release date, how longs it been now 4 months why? dont you think its a bit convienient what with the pending release of the new TRO...
It has actually been well over a year closing in on two since it was listed as out of print here in Canada, I cannot speak to how it has been listed in other countries, which is not to say that the book itself may not have had copies somewhere in some distributor's warehouse and thereby still available in some places but FanPro was the one that took it OOP.

You may consider it a bad habit Ava and you do have a right to your opinion but there are others that are glad that such things are done.
Its a bad habbit because this is not the first time in recent years this has been done and its bad form not to give your customers an option, there are other who would atleast like the 'choice' if they want to buy a new publication with only half of the product containing new material and the other half of the new product contains pre published material.
If a trilogy of core books (Jihad Hotspots) for instance is in print wait for all the books to be completed, then give the option to print the omnibus edition, simple really then everyone is happy....[/quote]

But not always an option given the history of industry sales and we're not talking about the history of the Jihad but of a TRO and so an Omnibus doesn't solve that.


CGL is providing the material under their license in the format of TRO that were once in FanPro products. Yes, some of their own material is duplicated and for those that are "old" fans some of the material goes way back to the days of FASA. But here is the thing, new fans - new players which a company needs to keep selling product because we all eventually die - this is about the only way they're going to get material that is in the universe and a company needs new customers buying its product.


To use one example of things from another company, I played DnD all the way up from when it was first known as the limited release of Chainmail. 4th edition is coming and with that I am no longer going to be active as a player or user of that material, not because it is bad but because it is not for me. I do realize why they did it the way that they have though because this gets a younger target audience playing the game, giving them a fresh consumer base to keep sales going nicely. They realize they will lose some sales because some of us for various reasons are done but they gain a boatload more which as a company which they are first they need to worry about their bottom line.

In the new edition for CBT, the core remained the same but CGL and FanPro before it still needs(ed) to look to their bottom line and that means securing new sales. One way to do that is to print material that isn't in production so that it keeps it available for the new consumers that keep hearing about it but for a time haven't been able to get it.

I've had players here speaking about the TRO 3039 and how it was a waste of money because they had it all...then they started flipping through it and reading the fluff and seeing that there was new information and suddenly they were all cool about it and had to have it, not because they already had the stats but because there was definitely stuff for the older, established player.

While I have no knowledge outside what anyone else does on this TRO I would expect the same with the republished material in the TRO 3075, there will be fluff that expands the universe in each entry as well as totally new designs so that older players are not just getting the same old, same old that they already have while the material is there for the newer player and both groups get to play with the new material.

We the established gamers will not be around forever and they must secure and always continue to secure new players to remain a viable company and line. The internet community may be the most vocal and have the most access but in truth we are a minority of the players though we represent the most fanatical.

Not everything will be done around what we want though they've certainly bent over backward at times to try just look at TRO 3039 as an example. They need to do what is best for the company otherwise we lose in the long run.

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Post by Dart Omega » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:49 pm

you mean like split the Unit building(as in mech Con.) rules and put it in just the box set(which not every one will buy)? thankfully the old Building rules still apply.

anyways, its nice to see beautiful art work.
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Post by AVA MANGO TWO » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:21 pm

Furthermore, some of the books, Dawn of the Jihad as an example, are currently out of print so players may not be able to get those designs in the original publication so there they are in the TRO.

Being out of print so soon after its first release date, how longs it been now 4 months why? dont you think its a bit convienient what with the pending release of the new TRO... .

It has actually been well over a year closing in on two since it was listed as out of print here in Canada, I cannot speak to how it has been listed in other countries, which is not to say that the book itself may not have had copies somewhere in some distributor's warehouse and thereby still available in some places but FanPro was the one that took it OOP.
My mistake here i was referring to the Jihad Hotspots and not the Dawn of the Jihad as thats the book that has the TRO for the WotB Celestrials and several of the vehicles listed in the new 3075 TRO.
Well i can only hope that there is new written material to acompany the already published designs, if thats the case ive no problems or argument at all.
But ive already passed on the 3039 TRO simply because there wasnt enough new text or information to warrent a new purchase from me so i can only hope thats this is not the case with any future publications...
Which is done because research in the industry has proven that players ask for and buy books that put material, perhaps not all of it but a good chunk of it, in one place so that they don't have to take several books with them.

I certainly appreciate it and I know quite a few others that like the ability to cut down on materials.
Thats the reason i mentioned all the Jihad publications was because as you mentioned the fact most players prefer not to be burdened down with material to take to games, well i know the TRO isnt a source book hence, takeing one extra book isnt a problem but haveing to take three books is a different matter, hence i suggested that all three Jihad books could be combined into one large omnibus edition as a option after all three have been printed, that to me does makes practical sence.
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Post by CJ_Keys » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:26 pm

AVA MANGO TWO wrote:
Furthermore, some of the books, Dawn of the Jihad as an example, are currently out of print so players may not be able to get those designs in the original publication so there they are in the TRO.

Being out of print so soon after its first release date, how longs it been now 4 months why? dont you think its a bit convienient what with the pending release of the new TRO... .

It has actually been well over a year closing in on two since it was listed as out of print here in Canada, I cannot speak to how it has been listed in other countries, which is not to say that the book itself may not have had copies somewhere in some distributor's warehouse and thereby still available in some places but FanPro was the one that took it OOP.
My mistake here i was referring to the Jihad Hotspots and not the Dawn of the Jihad as thats the book that has the TRO for the WotB Celestrials and several of the vehicles listed in the new 3075 TRO.
Well i can only hope that there is new written material to acompany the already published designs, if thats the case ive no problems or argument at all.
But ive already passed on the 3039 TRO simply because there wasnt enough new text or information to warrent a new purchase from me so i can only hope thats this is not the case with any future publications...
Actually the tradition of putting 'Mechs that appear in sourcebooks into later TROs is a smart one which has been performed by FASA and now Catalyst. A good example is that if I want to skim through some 'Mechs I might be using in a game and I want to look at a Raven I am not going to go to he house Liao SB and look it up. I am going to go to TRO 3039 or 3050.

the tech readouts are all just 'Mechs. I know the celestials were in the HS 72 book and the Ocelot was in 70 but if I want to have a look at 'Mechs from the era of the Jihad I woudl like them all in one sourcebook not spread across 4 or five of them. As for the 'Mechs and vehicles which have been in the jihad books they are extra candy in those books, almost a gigantic preview of the next TRO, they arent intended to replace entries in upcoming TROs.
AVA MANGO TWO wrote:
Which is done because research in the industry has proven that players ask for and buy books that put material, perhaps not all of it but a good chunk of it, in one place so that they don't have to take several books with them.

I certainly appreciate it and I know quite a few others that like the ability to cut down on materials.
Thats the reason i mentioned all the Jihad publications was because as you mentioned the fact most players prefer not to be burdened down with material to take to games, well i know the TRO isnt a source book hence, takeing one extra book isnt a problem but haveing to take three books is a different matter, hence i suggested that all three Jihad books could be combined into one large omnibus edition as a option after all three have been printed, that to me does makes practical sence.
The jihad books have a small amount of rules in them compared to the actual fiction. If I'm goign to have a MD VDNI MW on the table I photocopy the page I need and bring it in case I need to refrence it. As for a TRO being a sourcebook, it is, just in a different format.
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Post by IAMCLANWOLF » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:45 pm

Did you guys catch the first design preview?

http://www.classicbattletech.com/downlo ... rhands.pdf

Additionally anyone planning to attend the next CDT World event (Day Zero, Check your local CDT events here http://www.catalystdemos.com/) will get to see (and possibly pilot) another two designs from the TRO 3075...8)
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Post by Centurion13 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:45 pm

IAMCLANWOLF wrote:Did you guys catch the first design preview?

http://www.classicbattletech.com/downlo ... rhands.pdf
Yes I did. Unfortunately.

They're really going to press with this? Yuck.

I have already done a heavy edit on this particular piece and will post it here shortly. Really, the writers need to bounce these off each other - this one is clearly a second draft.

If it hits the street in this form, it will be the first time a Fan TRO actually reads better than the company's own work.

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Post by Heimdall » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:08 pm

As actually mentioned elsewhere on other boards this is not the final draft.

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Post by Centurion13 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:23 pm

Thank you. That IS a relief.

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Post by IAMCLANWOLF » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:37 pm

GRUD wrote:I think it's gonna be GREAT! Any idea what the 'Mechs on the Cover are?
Looks like a Hammer Hands and a Crimson Hawk.
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Post by saber 7 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:53 am

Heimdall wrote:
You may consider it a bad habit Ava and you do have a right to your opinion but there are others that are glad that such things are done.
Its a bad habbit because this is not the first time in recent years this has been done and its bad form not to give your customers an option, there are other who would atleast like the 'choice' if they want to buy a new publication with only half of the product containing new material and the other half of the new product contains pre published material.
If a trilogy of core books (Jihad Hotspots) for instance is in print wait for all the books to be completed, then give the option to print the omnibus edition, simple really then everyone is happy....
But not always an option given the history of industry sales and we're not talking about the history of the Jihad but of a TRO and so an Omnibus doesn't solve that.


CGL is providing the material under their license in the format of TRO that were once in FanPro products. Yes, some of their own material is duplicated and for those that are "old" fans some of the material goes way back to the days of FASA. But here is the thing, new fans - new players which a company needs to keep selling product because we all eventually die - this is about the only way they're going to get material that is in the universe and a company needs new customers buying its product.


To use one example of things from another company, I played DnD all the way up from when it was first known as the limited release of Chainmail. 4th edition is coming and with that I am no longer going to be active as a player or user of that material, not because it is bad but because it is not for me. I do realize why they did it the way that they have though because this gets a younger target audience playing the game, giving them a fresh consumer base to keep sales going nicely. They realize they will lose some sales because some of us for various reasons are done but they gain a boatload more which as a company which they are first they need to worry about their bottom line.

In the new edition for CBT, the core remained the same but CGL and FanPro before it still needs(ed) to look to their bottom line and that means securing new sales. One way to do that is to print material that isn't in production so that it keeps it available for the new consumers that keep hearing about it but for a time haven't been able to get it.

I've had players here speaking about the TRO 3039 and how it was a waste of money because they had it all...then they started flipping through it and reading the fluff and seeing that there was new information and suddenly they were all cool about it and had to have it, not because they already had the stats but because there was definitely stuff for the older, established player.

While I have no knowledge outside what anyone else does on this TRO I would expect the same with the republished material in the TRO 3075, there will be fluff that expands the universe in each entry as well as totally new designs so that older players are not just getting the same old, same old that they already have while the material is there for the newer player and both groups get to play with the new material.

We the established gamers will not be around forever and they must secure and always continue to secure new players to remain a viable company and line. The internet community may be the most vocal and have the most access but in truth we are a minority of the players though we represent the most fanatical.

Not everything will be done around what we want though they've certainly bent over backward at times to try just look at TRO 3039 as an example. They need to do what is best for the company otherwise we lose in the long run.[/quote]

Wow, I thought I was the last living chainmail player (I was just a kid then, but still...). I remember loving the concept of the raven back in the old days when you could only find it in the mechwarrior rpg (first one). Everyone wanted to be the one who redesigned the thing, or who came up with another house rule for the primitive electronics on the thing. When it finally turned up in 3050, I was elated... even though I no longer gamed with the same group. I felt somehow vindicated that others shared my interest in the little 'mech, while simultaneously

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Post by Cray » Thu May 01, 2008 7:28 am

AVA MANGO TWO wrote: I agree with you but as ive said id just prefer to see new material over already printed and used published material...
3075 has new material. It's not all retreads.
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Post by Cray » Thu May 01, 2008 7:36 am

Centurion13 wrote:I have already done a heavy edit on this particular piece and will post it here shortly.
Have you posted your version? If not, I'd like to see it.
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Post by Centurion13 » Thu May 01, 2008 10:06 am

Cray is right - a great deal is new stuff, if the ToC is any indicator. Furthermore, they have a nice spread. I will certainly give it a look.

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Post by Centurion13 » Thu May 01, 2008 10:10 am

Cray wrote:
Centurion13 wrote:I have already done a heavy edit on this particular piece and will post it here shortly.
Have you posted your version? If not, I'd like to see it.
Sorry, but I cannot. As has been stated, the work we have seen is not the final draft. It is not what they are going to publish. I have second drafts waiting for me on my hard drive which are in similar unfinished condition and would not appreciate a public 'correction' by another writer unless I specifically requested it.

This is not an ego game but rather a genuine concern of mine. I have no desire to 'show up' anyone.

I have done a rewrite - but it is pointless as long as I am not working with the final product. Jumping the gun serves no one. I retract my offer.

On the other hand, I would never allow one of my write-ups out the door in that rough form. And certainly not as a 'sneak peek' at a work I am hoping will be a hit.

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Post by Cray » Thu May 01, 2008 1:06 pm

Centurion13 wrote:This is not an ego game but rather a genuine concern of mine. I have no desire to 'show up' anyone.
And I was interested in genuine critical feedback, since BT's writing style is a concern of mine, too. Lessons learned with each book can be rolled into the next. But if you want to wait until TR:3075 is out, that's not a problem. No fixes would be incorporated into TR:3075 at this point except for a spelling tweak or incorrect number fix.
I have second drafts waiting for me on my hard drive which are in similar unfinished condition and would not appreciate a public 'correction' by another writer unless I specifically requested it.
And that's at least 1/2 of the problem with BT editing. That and time constraints and word counts.

Out of curiousity, what word count limits does each Fan TRO entry adhere to? "Fit on one page"?
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Post by Centurion13 » Thu May 01, 2008 1:22 pm

Cray wrote:
Centurion13 wrote:This is not an ego game but rather a genuine concern of mine. I have no desire to 'show up' anyone.
And I was interested in genuine critical feedback, since BT's writing style is a concern of mine, too. Lessons learned with each book can be rolled into the next. But if you want to wait until TR:3075 is out, that's not a problem. No fixes would be incorporated into TR:3075 at this point except for a spelling tweak or incorrect number fix.
Well then. I just wanted to make clear I am not a 'topper' looking for someone to humiliate.

I was told the HammerHands write-up which was offered as a sneak peek was not the final version. It's bad form to ride another writer's work before he's had a chance to polish it. At least, I wouldn't like it.

A pity about the no-fixes. When I got done with the correcting pen, that page looked like swiss cheese in reverse.
Cray wrote:
I have second drafts waiting for me on my hard drive which are in similar unfinished condition and would not appreciate a public 'correction' by another writer unless I specifically requested it.
And that's at least 1/2 of the problem with BT editing. That and time constraints and word counts.

Out of curiousity, what word count limits does each Fan TRO entry adhere to? "Fit on one page"?
Hahaha! That is so true! I was never aware there was supposed to be such a thing until I tried writing for the BTU TRO. It wasn't until I was rebuffed for an overlong write-up that I realized the work I did for TRO:3062 might have gone on a bit longer than it should have in some places.

I think it probably did, but no more than a hundred words or so - each example. :?

Now I am hip deep into write-ups for the TRO:3063 Vehicle Annex and my associates and I follow the 750-word limit as a matter of course. It's like any other parameter. We have a bit of wiggle room, plus or minus fifteen words, but otherwise it's a hard and fast rule. If you can't say what you want in 750 words, you haven't really decided what to say.

I have to look over first drafts and polish second drafts this AM, but the primary corrective work on the HammerHands is complete. I just need to get it down in the computer.

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Post by maxoconnor » Sat May 03, 2008 9:12 am

I just can't wait to see some of the old Battledroids like the Battleaxe resculpted and done right. :)
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Post by IAMCLANWOLF » Fri May 30, 2008 7:23 pm

Just spent about an hour going through the 3075 PDF.

:shock: This is a must have...so awesome!
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FOREVER [Ulric] KERENSKY!